Tuesday, August 9, 2011

GH's Women: I Dream of Jason...

 from bad guy to Doctor in one fell operation!

According to TV Guide, the women in Jason's life (Monica, Liz, Sam Carly--) all think about what life would be like if Jason hadn't gone mobular. They promise that the Liz fantasy will "drive the Liason fans crazy"!! Sam's the only one that wants Jason to stay as Jason.
Steve Burton says it was a blast to play the fantasy parts. God knows he needs to change that black t-shirt!!
Look for the scenes August 26th and 29th.  (and for Stuart Damon to be back!)


Anonymous said...

August 26th and 29th!!! We really have to wait that long?? Aw MAN!

Anonymous said...

I wish they would have brought back Keesha for the fantasy part. It would have been nice for them to show a "what if" type situation if Jason had never been in the accident. Either way I will be watching to see how it plays out and yeah the 26th is a long time to wait!!!


mosbp2003 said...

What's the point of the Liason stuff? I think it will be just more of a slap in the face to the Liason fans...

Anonymous said...

Especially since "to me" they killed Jake off so Jason and Sam could get married and have babies.

lisa said...

They continue to slap us in the face daily by continuing the transparent Liz and Lucky story ( you will accept liz and lucky as a couple-Are you hypnotized yet ? ). Talk about forcing it down our throats. I am a liason fan and if they have a nice liason fantasy it would be a welcome change, but at this point, I'm not holding my breath. I even like Liz and Dante scenes more.
Of course, sam gets to smack down Carly and bond with monica. I don't like Carly or Sam ,but I liked what was said to Carly. This is what makes me angry about jason, that he would chose to continue a friendship with that selfish witch. No one else's pain matters. She did her best to destroy liason, and michael's shooting trumped everything in jason's life. You're lucky, jasammers, that the writers of GH are on your side, otherwise, Carly would succeed in blowing them apart with her child's crisis.
Carly smackdown appreciated :) :) :) .

Anonymous said...

Enjoyed the Carly smackdown but would have loved monica to deliver it. She still needs to be told off by Liz for her blatant disrespect.

Watchintele said...

Where is Robin in this fantasy storyline?

She too wanted a life with Jason outside the mob.

I don't know if anyone else picked up on it? But did you notice how Sam was the only one that wants Jason to stay the same??
Thank You, TPTB for the blatant and obvious sell that you are trying to shove down our throats.

We get it already, Sam is the perfect person for Jason as she excepts him for who he is.
Good sell!!

Side bar, she only excepts him for who he is when she's his significant other. Let's not forget her ripping into to him constantly about his character when they were no longer together.
Fans have long memories.

Hope said...

even if its only a dream I will take any Jason & Liz that I can get.....;)

My2Cents2 said...

What is everyone thinking of the new headwriter thus far??

My2Cents2 said...

How is everyone liking or NOT liking the new head writer?

My2Cents2 said...

I can't stand watching this Liz & Lucky bull......

Don't get me started!!!!

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2, let me give you my 2 cents on the subject, if you may??

I am liking that there is more of the cast is being used. There seems to be more balance thus far.
Cast integration. We've seen characters share scenes that we haven't seen before.
More focus on the hospital.

I also like that he seems to be getting a bit more to the root of each character.
Letting characters drive stories instead of just having plot points and big stunts/events to move a story forward.

Guza was a big fan of stunts/events and then let characters react. His method of storytelling was focused on extreme scenarios.

Having said that, I'm still skeptical about his focus on the mob. Can't put my finger on it yet. He says he wants to move focus from the mob, and have it more as a peripheral issue that blends in with a story, however, the jury is still out on that one.

A change was needed. I liked it when he was in there during the writers' strike. Even then there was more balance.

Just wish they would get rid of Phelps and Frons!!

My2Cents2 said...

Thanks for your response Watchintele-

Great points you made.
I agree with alot of your comments.
I love Monica is back!!
LOVED her scenes with Jason throughout the years. (Haven't watched yet today)

For me the verdict is still out on the writing.
I agree, I don't see the Mob going away at all. Which is confusing as to what he has written will happen.

I will tell you right now, I am NOT a fan of Spinelli..and it is driving me up a wall with what is going on with his character.
I can't watch. Which prevents me from watching my fav's interact.

The Liz & Lucky thingy...I don't see Lucky being the 'love of her life'. Liz gets 'restless' easily.
I do believe she loves him deeply as a friend.
NOT happy with the writing with her either right now.

I am going to go watch..talk to you again soon!

Anonymous said...

Personally, I don't want to get rid of the mob altogether, just lessen it A LOT. As in, don't let mob stuff eat the show like we have seen with Guza. I would like much more hospital, more love and romance and family and friends, less mob and less violence and lame plot points, but not no mob at all, if that makes sense.

My2Cents2 said...

I don't want to get rid of the mob completely either.
However,I would like the Mob characters be given different scripts other than shootings, bombs, etc.
From what I read, more Mob are coming.

Watchintele said...

You're welcome, My2Cents2.

I agree with your comment about Liz and Lucky being tiresome at this point. There is way too much damage and water under the bridge for them in my mind.

As for her loving him as a good friend, I dunno. I mean ofcourse she does, bu more than that, I still feel she will always love him. As for her being madly in love with him as they are trying to get us swallow, is not working.
It often comes off as if they feel there is a sort of obligation that they owe one another.

The whole 3rd pregancy/who's the daddy story for Elizabeth was a real disservice to her character.
As I'm sure you know it was a transparent ploy by TPTB to pave the way to destroy any connection between Elizabeth and Jason and white wash all the bad things that Sam had done.

Fine, if you had Elizabeth cheat with Nikolas, which I found false.
Could have left it at that. No need to write her as being pregnant. They could have had her go to Sarah's for a while?
Or had her stay in Shadybrook longer? Or have take a leave of absence and stay at home?

The story would have still been solid. Lucky finds out about the affair. Elizabeth still has breakdown. I wish they would have explored more of why she did it??
For me, I would have went into the direction of Elizabeth not being able to handle Jason moving on with Sam, and Elizabeth wanting to do something so bad that would finally close the book on her and Lucky, thus her cheating with Nikolas.
Cuz if you recall around that time, Lucky was pushing for a reconciliation.

My2Cents2 said...

Watchintel...I have questioned Liz's motives for a few years now.
After Lucky gave her that smack down in front of Nik, I almost felt sorry for her. (Wasn't JJ awesome in those scenes??)
When Liz lost Jake, my heart hurt for her. It really did. However, now with this Lucky thingy, I am confused what are Liz's motives??
Does she want Lucky because someone else has him?
She has a motive. She always does.
However, glad she is getting a storyline other than getting pregnant!! lol
I do not agree with how she is handling the situation with Lucky.
Actually I am mad that she thinks she can go to a hospital and steal drugs to counter whatever Lucky took to begin with.
It isn't her call to play GOD with anyone's life.
By not calling for proper help, that is what she was doing.
Though Sio is a wytch and she has said some horrific things to Liz, she is still Lucky's wife. It is up to Liz to keep Sio in the 'loop' about Lucky.
For now I am not happy with Liz.
At all!

Anonymous said...

Wolf is doing pretty good so far but I want a LOT less mob. I know he can't do it overnight but I don't think there's a lot of time left so I think he should get hopping!

My2Cents2 said...

With me the jury is still out on him.
He is better than Guza..that I can concur on!!
He is running out of time, so he needs to pick up speed and catch those holes in his story's I have been seeing.

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2, I agree with your assessment regarding Elizabeth. She does seem to have a motive. I hate how they've been writing her too.

I too was disheartened for her when Jake was killed. What a horrendous way to play homage to such a beautiful storyline (BJ/Maxie). If you are going to do a redo of a story, then do it right!!

I found that they focused on the wrong characters with Jake's death.
Yes, Jason lost a son and it was a good lesson for him to learn that a child can be hurt/killed any number of ways.
That being said, he wasn't Jake's father in the way it mattered.
They should have focused on Lucky and Liz.
Lucky's involvement had more to do with finding out Luke killed Jake.
Again, attention was focused in the wrong place.
Elizabeth was given the least amount of story of the 3.

What irks me even more at this point is, we don't get to really see her grieve, but when Sam lost a baby, all we saw was her grief until we were fed up. Even, Carly for that matter had more story when she had a miscarriage with Jax.

They need to stop writing her as weak. Just as they did with Laura.
She's not Laura, so stop making her out to be.
They pigeon holed both characters.

Anonymous said...

Dang! It sucks they didn't do a fantasy with Robin/Jason.

My2Cents2 said...

I do agree when Jake died the focus was too much on Jason. However, I thought Jason's acting was one of his best.
RH was fired. Then rehired. Alot of her story was cut and poorly edited when they decided to keep her. The story was blotched due to this switch. IMO that was Guza's nail in the coffin.
Not sure how old you are, but do you remember the BJ story??
Nothing could come close to that.
TERRIBLE Storyline what Guza did.
No Laura, No Bobbie NOTHING.
Never saw such bad editing in my life.

I just finished watching today.
LOVE them bytch fights!! Sam really gave it to Carly. For me that was the highlight of the show.
I LOVE Carly. However I can only make excuses so long......
LOVED seeing Monica sitting with Sam, and then they embrassed each other at the end.
Michael & Abby are so b o r i n g.
Which is sad. Michael is a cutie!

The dog..was that Robin's dog that found Shawn?

Watchintele said...

I do remember the BJ/Maxie storyline. Tony Jones (Brad Maule) putting his head on Maxie's chest after the transplant was pure gold.
You cannot write something like that.
Felicia (Kristina Wagner) falling to the floor after finding out it was BJ who died and gave her heart to Maxie was so raw.
Bobbie (Jackie Zeman) was amazing in the whole storyline.

Such a classic. Talk about good writing and acting. Sometimes I do miss the writing of the 90's.

I guess you are right regarding Elizabeth's lack of story during Jake's death.

Also, agree that SBu did an amazing job with that storyline. His eyes and face say so much more than words could ever do.

Mel said...

@Mycents2, JMO, but I don't think Liz owes Siobhan anything. Wife or not. She berates her at every turn. Using the death of her child to do it, no less. That woman is despicable, and the only thing she should be getting from Liz is a good slap across the face - like Sam gave Carly.

My2Cents2 said...

I sympathize with Sio because she is extremely insecure with her relationship to Lucky. Does that give her the right to berate Liz?
NO. Not back then.
Now?? Liz is completely out of line with everything she is doing.
For now, neither women get much sympathy from me. Especially Liz.

Wasn't the BJ story in the 80's??

I found this new website..I think it is new...still trying to figure it out..it is designed for the future of soaps, I believe it is a part of son.
Will let you know once I learn more.
I like having forum discussions....

Watchintele said...

The BJ storyline took place in 1994.

I think the confusion stems from all the SORASING of characters that has gone on over the years.

My2Cents2 said...

1994-WOW I thought it went back further..thanks for the info!

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2, I dunno what you made of Elizabeth not being more concerned about Jason, but I found it completely out of character for her not to be present or supporting Monica.

It's like, stop trying so hard to deminish their bond for the sake of us to get behind Liz & Lucky and Jason & Sam respectively.

They made it seem like he was a complete after thought.

So I ask, what is the point of having the Liason fantasy, if the lead up doesn't show her being concerned as you would expect???

My2Cents2 said...

Hopefully Liz got the sense to know that Jason don't want her and it is wasted time on him. So on to Lucky. For the moment. Won't last.
Besided, Jason is in the best care right now, Lucky, who knows what her drug interaction did to him?

Watchintele said...

I understand her concern for Lucky. And, in no way am I diminishing his need for help or her desire for help.

However, it is in her nature to go and ask if Jason was okay or his prognosis regardless of him getting good and proper medical treatment.
That's why I found it odd that she didn't, thus my question.

As for it being a waste of time where Jason is concerned, we can agree that's been the case for the past few years now.

My2Cents2 said...

Honestly, when it comes to Liz, she is a hard one to figure out.
Like I said, Jason is in good hands. He is not only at the hospital but his mother and fiance are with him.
They don't need Liz hanging around!

Do I think Jason has been a waste these past few years? NO. I like him and his character, minus the killings.
They show him too much.....that I agree with!

Watchintele said...

Hahaha...I meant that it is a waste of time where Jason is concerned for Elizabeth.

They won't go there. We know that.

Nevertheless, she would have checked on him or asked before she darted out the door. Or even asked someone to keep her aprised of the situation.

As for Jason as character, he's a great one. Have they faltered with his direction and characteristics that define him as a character since he's woke up from the coma? Yes, I believe they have. It cannot be chalked up to character growth either. Some things that are a staple of character should not be messed with.

My2Cents2 said...

I am new here....how do you start blogs??

Echo Day said...

The one photo guaranteed to bring me out of the woodwork! Jason, you homicidal, hypocritical hitman, lower the weapon. If you feel the need to point a weapon at someone, please point it at yourself or your girlfriend. You are sucking face with the woman who watched your son be kidnapped, hired men to hold your son, his mother and brother at gunpoint, refused to allow the kidnapping to be broadcast on her show, said to the mother of your son something like now you know what it feels like to lose a child. You are a loser, step away from Luke, or I will be forced to tell Monica your girlfriend did the above mentioned acts.
Liz, Liz, Liz…I love you like a daughter but you need to get a backbone. How can you be ok with this marriage? The father of your child is going to marry the accomplice to the kidnapping of your son. Ask Jason if he’ll be fine with you when you watch their child be taken by a crazy person-cue Franko. Liz, if you don’t curse them on their wedding day, a la Helena, I will!
I don’t watch any longer because I can’t stand they killed Jake to get him out of the way but I love this blog and I am sorry for the trouble you have had.

My2Cents2 said...

Lizzie has quite a backbone!!
Who else has the nerve to play 'Doctor & God' at the same time??

I am pretty bold, but even I wouldn't have the guts to steal meds from the supply room at the hospital the day she called in sick!
Then to give it to Lucky without knowing what he was on to begin with?? Oyyy Liz......what are we going to do with you?

Anonymous said...

Echo Day, Thank you for your comments regarding Jason and Sam. That is one of the many reason that I have never been able to get on the JaSam bandwagon. Well after 05. I agree about Liz needing a backbone. I guess that I am the only one that did not like Sam slapping Carly. However I think that is because I passionately HATE, HATE, HATE the character of Sam McCall. I know Sam had some valid points but Carly is my girl. I love her character faults and all. At least I am liking Dante and Olivia more now. I agree with whoever wrote about disliking Spinelli. I don't like his character anymore. As for GW, I will have to watch more before I say that I like him or not.

wherewolfmom said...

I have to say up front I don't like Liz and cheered when I heard she was "released" from her contract. I also screamed and ripped at my clothing when fans rallied to bring her back. It just wasn't right. She's bad for Jason. She's bad for Lucky. She's kryptonite for any man she touches. Am I being to vague? That being said WTF.....she is helping Lucky find out who is stealing drugs at the hospital. This tips off the actual thief because she decides the new orderly looks shifty. Lucky gets shot full of drugs and her thought is to go to the hospital with the missing drugs and steel more drugs. Isn't that a double negative?

Sio needed a good smack not a tumble down the stairs..I know Liz didn't push her. Sio was being way too nasty I think something's wrong and Matt will find it when he cracks open her skull. Oh, those nasty headaches. At GH a headache is never a headache when it can be an tumor.

My2Cents2 said...

I too am not on the 'Sam bandwagon'.
Not sure I HATE her, Not sure I like her.
LOVE Carly, however I will be the first to call her out when she was wrong. Carly was wrong to go to Jason's first and not go home. Why if she was so worried would she do that??

How funny about Liz when she was fired. I was so HAPPY!! :O) The character is such a FAKE worthless piece of time. The one thing Guza did right was eliminate her. Or try to. She is not only back, but she has a major storyline now!!
A storyline where she is made out by most viewers as some kind of a 'hero'. I don't get it. She is still a sneak and liar, only this time she is playing games with people's lifes.

And Sonny. WTF?? His best friend is dying in the hospital, and it is more important for him to find Jax to kill??

Watchintele said...

Liz being fake?? I can see where that has been the case.

First time she was written that way was to promote the new it girl, Courtney and prop Journey.
Elizabeth was thrown under the bus.

The second time that has happened when they wanted to promote Sam, Fron's new it girl, and Jasam. Again, Elizabeth was thrown under the bus and they tried to get her of canvas to rid hope of Liason happening. Jake was a casuality of that as they wanted no reminder of the couple at all.
Each time they've steered away from Liason, she's been written as needy, weak, destructive not only to herself but those around her.
We all know that's pure character assassination, while her "competitor" for Jason's affections is written as "can do no wrong, wise as they come, everyones best friend". Case in point, Courtney, and now Sam.
They've always written Elizabeth as fake when they want to make someone else in Jason's life look good.

However, lets not forget how Sam was introduced to the canvas. A con artist, bed hopper (in one night no less), mistress, etc.

All that she has done over the years is again being white washed and she's coming off as smelling like roses.
They did it after she was paired with Jason for the first time. We were expected to forget what she did to Carly and her kids for that matter.
And, now they want us to forget that she was an accessory to kidnapping, orchastrator of physically threatening Elizabeth and the boys, sleeping with her mother's husband, etc.

Biggest difference between Elizabeth and Sam is that Elizabeth owns her mistakes and shortcomings, Sam will always find and excuse or someone else to blame or the fact that she had a tough childhood.

The truth is, the writing for this show has been horrible for over a decade. A lot of characters have been ruined as a result. And, I mean those have been painted in a really bad light just to promote other characters that were introduced as "bad" characters to begin with.
They've changed things that defined a character.

I digress, we will agree to disagree.

My2Cents2 said...

I have no dillusions about Sam. I know exactly what she was when she came on the show.
The difference between her and Liz, Liz don't 'own up' to her sneaky behavior. She is a liar, a sneak, and in reality, she is no better than Sam or Carly.
I take that back. The difference between them is with Sam & Carly you know what to expect.
With Liz, she fools people into thinking 'poor Liz'.
I don't buy it. Not for a second.
I believe Sam has changed. That doesn't excuse her past though.
As a devoted Carly fan, she owns up to what she is and what she has done in life.
Does Liz? Did you hear Liz at the diner talking to Matt about Maxie?
What was the purpose of that?
Did my hearing go that day? Where did Liz take any responsibility for HER MISTAKES in life?
She didn't.
YES Liz lovers, we will agree to disagree on this character! lol

wherewolfmom said...

Next time they throw Liz under that bus I hope she stays under. Liz couldn't own a mistake if it bit her in the butt. "Oh, I'm Liz and I'm going to talk trash about Maxie..to her man." To her man no less who does she think she is. Hello, slept with my husband and his brother within the same 24hr period so I didn't know whose child I was carrying. Pot calling kettle, ye without sin and I'm sure there are other phrases out there. SO,shut up.(I mean Liz)

I do love Sam and JaSam and I'm hoping for a beautiful wedding, there will be tears and maybe cake. She has worked to redeem herself. She's the harlot with the heart of gold. What other kind of woman could Jason love.

I to love Carly - I love to hate me some Carly. Some finely tuned selfish Carly when she can cry at 2 of the 3 men in her life at any given time. On a really good day when she can also get in a Liz or Sam smack-down you know you got lucky. Days like that don't come often. I don't think we've had any since Sonny's trial/Micheal's incarceration ah good times.

My2Cents2 said...

WhereWolf....I think I found a buddy here!!
(just kidding everyone else)
They will NEVER keep Liz under the bus. NEVER.The only hope we had of that, is when Guza fired her and was going to write her off as going nutso after Jake died.
Since she was rehired (popularity)she is 'running' with the show. She isn't going under any bus. It is going to continue with 'St.Liz'.
This Lucky crap has me burning though. HOw can she give him a drug, stolen from the medicine room at the hospital? Who is she to make that decision? If she isn't brought up on charges, I will be FFing thru her next. The fact she gave him something to counter act what he took?
Does she know what he took?

Sam has done bad things. She liked sleeping with all the HOTTIES on GH. (So would I though)
She has worked really hard at redeeming herself. Though...her sleeping with Alexis husband was pretty nasty.
As nasty as Liz sleeping with her husbands brother!!!

Now..what are we going to do with the Spinelli character??

Watchintele said...

Sam owning upto what she's done??
Got to be kidding me?
I regret doing that to Jake...blah blah blah.
Not once has she said, I did it I was wrong.
She has always said, cuz I was so dependent on Jason that once I lost him I couldn't help myself.
I was still reeling from losing my child.
I had a bad childhood.
There is always an excuse with her.
Or she will twist stuff around to suit her purpose.
If you call that owning up, I dunno what to say??
The truth is this, Sam has not changed. They are white washing all her crap. If she were to lose Jason tomorrow to say Elizabeth, Robin or even someone else, she would revert back to her true nature. She has always been about Jason and him belonging to her.
She is now throwing her weight around, again I might add, in regards to his medical treatment. She did it the last time and she's doing it again. Hope Monica smacks her too.

Carly, yes!! I may not like her all that much, but she is who she is and makes no excuses about it.

So please do not compare the 2. Even Maxie, who I like, I can say owns up to her mistakes and doesn't make an excuse about it.

Others may for Carly and Maxie, but they rarely do themselves.

Are we really going to go there about Elizabeth about sleeping with 2 guys on the same night??
For one, it was to write in BH's real life pregnancy into the story.
Secondly, it was to make her look bad while promoting Sam. Level the playing field so to speak.

And, what does sleeping with 2 guys have to do with feeding an addict pills to keep him with you??
Maxie did what she did, and owned it. Just as Elizabeth owned the fact that she cheated on Lucky with Nikolas and regretted it.

Come on, Sam did the same thing with Sonny and Jax. She even lived across the hall from Sonny hoping that he would leave Carly for her.

Yes, Elizabeth cheated on Lucky with his brother. And she did own upto her mistake. If you recall, she did want Lucky back.
She even admitted to not being there for Lucky in the way she should have been when he was addicted to drug.

As for her bad mouthing Maxie, I don't agree with that either. The TPTB are trying to promote Lucky & Liz so ofcourse she has to bad mouth the woman that helped destroy her marriage.
Right now it's all about Lucky for her.
The way she's going about it is all wrong.
She may think by supporting him this time around will make up for the last time is pure nonsense.

Furthermore, you may not agree with me, but seriously do you not find it odd that she is okay with Sam after everything that's happened, but she's bad mouthing Maxie??
Enabling his addiction, having an affair with him all of sudden trumps being an accessory to kidnapping, threatening children??
Again, it's all the TPTB agenda coming through.

Also, like to point out that it's not Elizabeth that does the "poor Liz" facade, Lucky and Jason have both treated her like she's a delicate person for their own respective reasons.

We can sit here all day and rehash all the wrongs they've done and who has done worse. We like who we like for whatever reason.

I still hope that Jason and Robin are revisited. They've always been my fave.

My2Cents2 said...

First, lets not make this into a Sam vs Liz. We all perceive things differently..lol

I am not a Sam fan. Very nuetral with her character. However, she has apologized to both Liz & Lucky & Jason. I heard her speak the words. Does saying you are sorry take away from what she did? Absolutely not.. I don't know about you, but I have made my share of stupid mistakes in life.
The difference (for now) is Liz keeps making them.
I will agree with Sam trying to throw her 'weight' aroung. ICK!
She had no voice for 2 years and did nothing but sit on Jason's couch. Now she is becoming vocal because they are engaged?
As far as Maxie goes she screwed up as well.
The difference between all 3 of these women who have screwed up bad in the past, is that Sam & Maxie appear to be growing with there character. Liz is still the same.
Do you honestly think she wants Lucky?? Honestly??
She wants him because Sio has him.
If she goes back to Lucky it will be a matter of time before she is in another man's bed. Lucky doesn't 'put out' that burning fire Liz has going with herself.

Watchintele said...

Allow me to say one more thing that I feel is the most blantant falsehood of all.

Jason would never, and I emphasize on NEVER forgive Sam for what she did if he were written truthfully to what defined him as a character since Day 1 after his accident.

He was unable to forgive AJ for kidnapping Michael. He couldn't forgive Ric for kidnapping Carly when she was pregnant with Morgan.
And, most importantly, he found it very hard to forgive Robin for telling the TRUTH of all things with Michael's paternity. Look how many years it took for him to do that!!

So him forgiving Sam, it utter nonsense.
Jake was his child. A child that he longed to have.
Part of the reason why he was so reluctant to be a father to that child was cuz of Sam and her actions.
This is why I cannot get behind this pairing.
I was indifferent the first time around, but now I cannot stand them.
And, no it's not cuz I want Liason. I could care less.

I just don't like when they veer from a defining characteristic of a character, all for TPTB agendas.

My2Cents2 said...

That argument I have to disagree with you on.
Is Jason (never mind Sam) the same person he was back in the day?
How many times recently haven't we heard Jason confess to his behavior from the past when it came to his family, especially Michael?
He has many regrets, and he is a different man.
So to throw that up, is ridiculous.

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2, like I said, Elizabeth has been written as the "heel" for better part 3 years now.
Hence, me saying she's been thrown under the bus so to speak and to level out the playing field. Ofcourse, she will not learn from her mistakes if they continuously write her as constantly making them.
Have you seen her given a story where she's had time to learn during that time frame??
It's all been she makes a mistake, loses something, mistake, loses something. No time to grow.
They've never written for her to rebuild herself.
It really comes off like they've written Elizabeth this way to redeem Sam in the viewers eyes.

Even now, I agree she's being written as wanting Lucky cuz he's with Siobhan. Whether she wants Lucky or not is irrelevant since the TPTB want us to believe they belong together as Jasam belong together.

Apologies are fine, and yes they will not erase the past. Yes, Sam has apologized to Jake's parents, but with the apology have come with excuses for her behaviour.
She emphasizes more on the excuses as opposed to emphasizing her being wrong. That's why I don't feel her apologies have been genuine.

I don't hate Sam, I do dislike her a lot. But, I'd rather see her without Jason cuz she was more of a character then. She had potential.
Now it's all about Jason, again. It's tiresome.

As for Maxie, out of every character on this show, I believe she's grown the most.
Her progression is natural. Reason being, cuz she owns who she is. No excuses!!
This is why I find myself cheering for her.

Watchintele said...

Yes, Jason has admitted he made mistakes where Michael is concerned and has regrets regarding his family. He's owned upto those.
He's even gone a far as apologized to Robin, and the Q's (including AJ - for not telling the truth about Michael).

But that doesn't negate the fact that he was so easily able to forgive Sam.
Reason being, he took so long to forgive Robin for telling the truth. She did not endanger Michael directly if you want to look at it like that. Which I don't.
Thus, my point about not forgiving AJ for kidnapping Michael and Ric for for kidnapping Carly. They endangered people he loved. He didn't forgive Dr. Jones for kidnapping Robin and Michael.
Sam did the same thing. She endangered people he loved out of revenge.
This was his son. The mother of his son. Cameron.

It's not character growth. This has been a staple of his character.
Yes, over the years we all have regrets and wish we have redos, but some things about a person will never change. And, this is one of them.

Watchintele said...

Characters do change over time, and yes in a lot of ways he's not the same person as he was when he first woke up, that can be said of everyone. But my point is, there are some things that define you as a person will never change. And, this is one of them.
Protecting those he loves and not forgiving them is one of them.

Another example is Jerry. The man is responsible for his father's death. He shot Robin. Held those he loved hostage. He's even been shot by him.
Jason has worked with the man at times, but will never forgive him.
Same can be said of Ric.

Thus the forgiveness is so false.

My2Cents2 said...

Watchintele-I agree with you that tptb do not allow her character to grow and to learn from her mistakes.
Sam has nothing to do with it. NOTHING. So please..don't go there. It is how Guza has written Liz. And Liz alone. Don't assume her writing has anything to do with Sam. It doesn't.

Right or wrong, when I apologize to someone,I usually give an excuse as well for my poor behvavior. I think alot of us do.
Do I think Sam's character is better away from Jason? YES I do.
I am not neccesarily on board with their wedding. However Jason loves her like no other.
No denying that, right?

I liked him with Courtney the best

My2Cents2 said...

Reading more of your posts, you hatred for the character of Sam is very powering. Why is that? Are you angry that the writers chose Sam over Liz for Jason??

People grow and change in life.
If you can't accept that, then I am sorry for you. lol

Also..try to remember this is a fantasy show...its not real and it isn't perfect.

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2, do I have a bias in my opinion of Sam? Ofcourse!!
I won't sit here and say I don't.

Yes, it's upto the writer to write a character however they feel or in what direction they want to take them in.
Nevertheless, I do feel it was all too convenient that they wrote Elizabeth the way they have all the while sweeping Sam's misdeeds under the rug. They did a complete 180˚ with her character. It's like she's a completely different person. The progression was too fast and no real repercussions were faced (Sam).
It can be said, they wrote Elizabeth this way, cuz they were writing her out. Have her completely destroyed before her exit. Now, that they've decided to bring her back, they are having her pacify any hints of Liason by propping Sam and Jasam.
I do not like when the writers that write based on preferences, politics or agendas at the expense of what has defined a character as that character. This is why I cannot get behind this couple. They have gone away from the script as they say, with a severe tangent.
And, I dunno if you know, but Frons is a big backer of Jasam and Sam, so his pen can be felt.

I also prefer when they write someone as a character that isn't too dependent on another like they've done with Sam.
Like I said, she had far more potential for growth when she wasn't with Jason. When is the last time we saw her on a case? Like, have them really show her working?
All that changed once they put them together. She's slowly being phased out as an independent person with a penchant to scheme and just be bad for an image of a cookie cutter, wise and can do no wrong person.

To answer your question about apologies. We all tend to give an explanation for our behaviour. However, a genuine apology is not when you use that explanation to cop out of what you did. Admit you did it, and that's it. Explanations are nice, but do not use them to gain sympathy or twist the perspective to shift blame in others' directions. This in my opinion is not owning up. This is a cop out.

If Liason happens at this point, I will be shocked. Not holding my breath. Is my dislike of Sam because of this? No.
I feel they chose to destroy and change characters to just write for this pairing. That's what bothers me.

You like Jason with Courtney, I liked him best with Robin.
I'm sure you noticed when they decided to go the direction of Jasam, Courtney was written in a bad light.

As for Jason loving Sam like no other, is what I cannot comprehend. It goes against everything he represents.

Yes people change and that's a part of life. But, I'm sure like me, there are things about you that will never change regardless of how much we grow as people. Those things are something that define us. For instance, even if someone you are very close to has not seen you in so many years, will still be able to recognize you as person based on certain habits, behaviours, attitudes, etc. because those things are what help define you as a person.
That's what I'm saying. I dunno if I'm not being clear enough.

I know it's a show, but I do not like what they've done to it and I wish they would stay true to a character instead of writing them to suit a story. Then all of sudden write them different for the next.
Write a story that are character led and not events/stunts. Allow characters to grow gradually by the former and not the latter.

Do not change characters for agendas.

For me, liking or disliking a character or story is based on writing. If I feel they are writing based on agenda or have changed a character all of sudden just for that story I don't buy it.

My2Cents2 said...

I agree with you that there are certain traits of us which will never change. (Great point)
As far as Jason goes, can his character really be defined?
He had a brain injury from years ago, so who is he? Is the brain healing? Has his life been so unsatisfactory for himself that he has chosen to change who he is?
A killer he is. However, he is the most loving killer there is! That is how I know that this is all fiction. Anyone with that much love inside of them, would never be capable of murder.
On to Sam. Again, I don't understand what you are saying. First you say she is bad because of her beginnings, then you say she is portrayed in a better light than Liz.
I don't see it that way at all.
I saw the girl who sat on Jason's couch waiting for him like an idiot. Allowing him to do as he pleases, etc....
Where & how is that good writing for her?
Makes her look like an idiot if anything.

You say that the writers write who the viewers like. They have to for ratings!

Liz, IMO only is not going to change. They are writing her now as a 'saint' for Lucky, first chance she gets a 'HOTTIE' she will throw Lucky under the bus. No doubt.

Don't hold your breath for a Liason reunion. Other than in a dream, it doesn't happen.
I read a very interesting article today by SB. I don't want to discloses spoilers....so I won't..
But the closet Liz gets to Jason is in a dream. lol

TVNerd95 said...

I see several folks feel the same way I do. I read this post and the first thought I had was how many of these women actually knew Jason before he was mobular.

Monica yes, Robin yes -- but not included, Carly -- showed up when Jason was NuJason but on the brink of deciding.

Liz and Sam have only known the mob Jason. So I'm confused but can't wait to see how Steve Burton does in the sequences.

My2Cents2 said...

From what I read today in his interview...he plays alot of different roles...so it should be fun!

Mel said...

ICAM w/ Whatchintele's assessment of Elizabeth's OOC "mistakes", the last couple years. That nonsense had agenda written all over it. Now that Rebecca Herbst is here to stay, I hope they can once again get back to who her character really is, and leave the backstage politics out of it!

wherewolfmom said...

Did you see it ... did you.. Carly almost admitted a mistake today, almost. But then she realized it wasn't a real mistake. She just didn't listen to someone and she always does that so lucky for her she didn't really apologize.

Not to beat a dead horse but back to Liz ;-p

I will say that some of my problem with Liz is because of the actress. RH plays to Liz's weaknesses every time. Always whining. Even trying to help Lucky with the drug sting. Which she totally screws up [writers]. She whines to Dante about Lucky's career. I don't think that's what he was thinking as he picked himself up off the gutter.

"Oh Dante. what about Lucky's career?" "you don't really believe Lucky was forced to get high." That's what makes Liz so unbelievable to me. Co-dependency R' Us. Liz & Lucky co-dependency perfection. I know she just lost Jakey and I should cut her some slack but sometimes I just can't. I mean I'm physically unable to because I'm to busy throwing up in my MOUTH when she is on SCREEN.

Lucky knocked Dante out when his back was turned and Liz is worried about the career. I'm thinking we've passed career and gone straight to shot to hell. What is she thinking? I'm glad she figured out where that 'poor thang' wandered off to before he could really hurt his self. Fall off the docks or try to operate heavy machinery. A doped out, barefoot, drooling cop wandering around PC. That's a real career booster. He and Mac can have a drink at Coleman's.

I'm so glad to have this fantasy to write about. On TV right now is a documentary about the massacre in Norway. That's reality x10. This man is a sick terrorist and I who hate the FL death penalty wish he could die painfully in a Norway jail. He is not a psycho or sociopath, he wanted to kill these young people because they had different political beliefs then him. He believed their Politics would destroy Norway and eventually Europe. Shit

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2, I said Sam was introduced as a con artist, schemer, made no qualms about hurting people to get what she wanted.
Then she was paired with Jason, and all of sudden we saw someone who was excepted. Her misdeeds were ignored.
Then when she lost Jason, her true nature was displayed again.
Now that she is again with Jason, we are supposed to ignore who she was??
My point is, when she's not with Jason, she's a character with flaws and penchant to scheme, hurt and lie. There is potential with her. When paired with Jason, she's a shell of her character and is depicted as a can do no wrong person. So in that sense, she has been portrayed as one and then the other depending on her relationship status with Jason.
So there can be a correlation between how she's written depending on her pairing. And, those that were written one way were indeed thrown under the bus, Courtney and Elizabeth to draw attention away from Sam's sudden change from being immoral, bad, etc. in one fell swoop to being good, moral and wise, etc.

How can you say that she's shown character growth on the one hand, if you've said that she's been written as an idiot for sitting on Jason's couch, agreeing with what he does and says? If you ask me, she has regressed back to who she was when they were paired the first time around which was only to white wash all her misdeeds after her introduction to the canvas.

Also, if Sam has been sitting on couch and showing character growth, what have they done with Elizabeth?
Have her revert back to Lucky again after they split her and Jason. Cheat on him with his brother. Which she would never have done. Remember when Lucky "died", Nikolas wanted a relationship with her, and she couldn't as it was insulting to Lucky??
Even Tyler Christopher said himself it was out of character for both of them to do that.
Agenda is written all over that when the actor himself says it. His character was ruined too.
This was all to make Elizabeth look bad and even the playing field in regards to her and Sam, as they did with Elizabeth and Carly.

As for Jason, out of all the characters on this show, he's the one that you could expect not to change so much cuz of his brain damage. Remember, he suffered damage to his frontal lobe causing severe personality shift thus limiting his potential to change as a person as our frontal lobe is what controls behaviour and higher thinking.
So when I said, Jason would not forgive, he's very incapable to do so. He mimics behaviour as opposed to learning behaviour. Cuz of the brain damage, he's unable to learn behaviour to a vast extent. So for him to not forgive those as I stated before for hurting people he loved, as protective instincts are very primal and primary behaviour and hard to change, one could say that him forgiving Sam is out of character for him cuz he doesn't know how to deviate from that basic instinct. It requires higher thinking which he does not really have. Thus, his inability to understand people and why he had so much trouble with the Q's and them hurting one another and lying.

Elizabeth is being written as Lucky's saviour at this point, cuz they want us to root for them.
And, I totally agree, she will never be happy with Lucky cuz he sees her a certain way, which she is not.

Wherewolfmom, I think the reason why Elizabeth is doing what she's doing now has more to do with not supporting Lucky the first go around with his drug addiction. She wants to believe in him.
Is it a mistake? Yes. Should she protect him? No. Should she allow Dante to get Lucky help? Ofcoure.

My2Cents2 said...

Warewolf....What mistake did Carly try to cover up?? About her regret with running to Jason?

As far as these women who didn't know Jason before his head injury, from what SB stated in his interview, he plays the roles according to these women's lives and how his life would have been.
He did slip in the interview about SD return. :(

What is with Dante?? Is he officially the new lurker at GH?
He seems to be everywhere for everyone.. First he helps Liz with Lucky, then he is at the hospital lurking, then Carlys, now the jet with Sonny. He isn't very strong for a cop...a drug addict knocked him out as well as Sonny yesterday!
Speaking of Sonny, I usually LOVE his character. Let's just say yesterday I felt like I needed a shower after scene with him.

Maybe I enjoyed yesterday's show because there was NO Liz or Spinelli??

I thought yesterday's episode was simply one of the bests.
You can't take away from Diane & Alexis and Coleman taking their clothes off. Did you see Diane in her underwear clothes?? OMG!!
Diane is going to hook up with Coleman..you just watch!!

My2Cents2 said...

After reading your comments about Sam, it is a mute discussion since your hatred for her is so overwhelming..you aren't seeing the whole picture.
You say Sam has no 'qualms' about hurting people to get what she wants. How is Liz different? Please explain.
If Jason tossed Sam to the curb would she revert to the hustler she once was?? Perhaps. However until the writers take us there, we have to base her on what we are seeing. Apparently there are many faces to Sam McCall!! However, there are alot of faces to many characters on the show, even Liz.
I have explained to you that I am 'on the fence' with Sam. So for me this isn't a tic for tac between these women, but rather truth vs truth.

I am not a brain surgeon. So I don't know what Jason's brain is capable or incapable of doing.
Even if I were a brain surgeon, the brain is very much a mystery, how anyone can assess what the brain is capable or not capable of doing is strickly speculation.

I personally am looking at the present, not the past. (Somewhat) So when I look at Liz, I see what she is doing now that is so terribly wrong. I am not thinking about all her past mistakes,I am focused on the present. As I am with most all the characters on the show.

I think we can agree, some characters grow and some stay the same. Either way,I take away from what is being shown to me at the time.

wherewolfmom said...

Just call me wolfie...I loved yesterdays episode. Carly's almost mistake not listening to Shawn but he had a PTSD episode and couldn't rescue Joss. They were both wrong canceling each other out. If Shawn had to unzip her dress how did she get those jeans on?

I think we got the message. Sonny is gangsta. Someone please start force feeding meds. He could use just a bit of a dark but not homicidal. Recovery from she who sucks all life from the room aka Brenda is a slow process. I think he could use a dose of Clair, she's not a forever girl but someone to have fun with, a distraction.

I loved Monica, Sam and Edward coming together at the end. Sam's head on Edward's shoulder was very sweet.

Coleman, Diane & Alexis - strip pool who could ask for anything more. Then Mac walks in just as Alexis is jumping up and down for Coleman to take it off take it off. That's the more we could ask for. The only thing better was finding out what kind of unmentionables Diane wears.

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2 to answer your comments.
My dislike for Sam stems from the writing of this character development and really the lack there of. Also, I dislike this character as she is written for in a positive light due to agenda and backstage politics.
That is my personal opinion.

When she was introduced, like I said she was a schemer, con artist and liar. All of a sudden, like overnight, as soon as she was paired with Jason she was no longer any of those. As you pointed out, she sat on a couch, and looked like an idiot cuz all she did was cater to Jason's life. So in essence, there was no character growth. So how could she be able to do anything negative? Her growth to not being a schemer, liar and con artist was non-existent. It was like one day she was and the next she wasn't. No consistancy with this character. That is my point. I cannot like a character good or bad, if there is no gradual growth/change.
One can argue that her change from one to the other coincides with Jasam.

Now, when she was no longer with Jason, all of a sudden she reverted back to her old ways. Things that define us just don't go away and all of sudden appear again.
And, now that she's back with Jason, once again we have her not being a liar, schemer and con artist, instead we are supposed to buy into her being a kind, friendly, and wise person.

Allow me to compare and contrast with other characters.

Sonny: Introduced as a self-centered, arrogant, hot headed, ruthless person, with the capability to be kind and generous. Even now, after almost 18 years, Sonny is relatively the same person. There have been times where they have diverted away from some of these, but they were never changed. He has been depicted as all these things. He know it's Sonny.

Luke: Gambler, drinker, adventurous, quick-witted, schemer, selfish. To this day, in essence Luke has remained all of these things.

Carly: Selfish, strong, needy, liar, fighter, compassionate. Since the day she's been introduced, and throughout all of her pairings, Carly has been consistently all of these.

Robin: Intelligent, overacheiver, perfectionist, kind, caring, honest.
She's been on this show for 20+ yrs now. We've seen her grow up. And, she has always shown consistency.

Jason: Honest, kind, compassionate, cold, blunt, hates liars/people that hurt his family.
He's always been these things. All of sudden, he goes against this to be with Sam??

They wanted Jasam back, and they had to change his character to get back with her, and for us to find Sam more likeable we are supposed to buy that she is kind, caring, wise, everyones' bff, and not a liar, schemer and victim, etc.
No consistency.

Watchintele said...

If you make changes to a character, take the time to do so. And, do not make them so drastic that they are the polar opposite of how they were only a few short days/wks earlier.

Even Jason, when he was changed from Jason Quartermaine to Jason Morgan, there were still a lot of similarities between the 2. For instance, protective of his family, kind, compassionate, honest.
Jason Q, was more friendly, obviously smarter, cared about right and wrong.
Jason M, was more cold, less sociable, quiet.

And, if you are going to change a character based on their relationship with someone or change the dynamic of a relationship be naturing and take your time.
Sam and Alexis could not stand each other. Then they found out that they were daughter and mother respectively. Did they all of sudden love each other? NO!!!
It took time, and only now have they formed a bond. Alexis did not forgive Sam that easily for sleeping with Ric, as Sam didn't forgive Alexis in her part with Sam losing her baby.
Gradual transition in the writing.

Jason and Sam couldn't stand one another, and the next minute they were together.
Jason was unable to forgive Robin for a very long time for telling the truth about Michael who is not his child biologically, but he was able to forgive Sam for endangering his son, threatening Jake's mother and brother? We are supposed to buy that?
And, Robin helped him through the roughest time. She was his first love, and as they say, first love's cut the deepest.

It's all consistancy, and the lack thereof where Sam is concerned. That is why I cannot find her character likeable, cuz I don't know who she is. Is she a con artist, liar, schemer and victim? Or kind, compassionate, wise, bff? This totally depends on her relationship status with Jason.

Watchintele said...

You asked how is it that I don't see Liz going around deliberately hurting people? Well, she hasn't purposely gone out to hurt someone. Has she hurt people? Ofcourse! Were her intentions good when she ended up hurting someone? Yes, I believe they were. I'm sure that is upto debate.
Will she hurt someone in the future? I'm sure she will.
If we look at the now and present, we all see Elizabeth in a bad light. They've been writing her that way for the past 3 yrs. How is she to learn or grow if they do not allow it?
Are we to believe all that will change as soon as she and Lucky are reunited? Yes we are, as that is what they want us to believe.
Presently, Elizabeth is the heel and Sam is the herione. They've done a complete 180 with their characters. They've deviated so far from who they are, that these characters lack consistancy.
Elizabeth would not do what's she's done if they had written her as they always did.

As for now, ofcourse Elizabeth is the heel. That's how the writers wanted to write her.
Sam is the herione at the moment cuz she's with Jason.
All that may change if the storyline changes.

I've tried to be open to Sam's character, but I dunno what to make of her??
It's clear that she's a favourite of Frons and he doesn't want her to be thrown in the mud.

When Jason was with Sam the first time around and Courtney was still in the picture, Courtney was written as the heel and Sam the herione. All so the viewers would back his couple.
Now that Sam is again with Jason, Elizabeth has become the heel and Sam again is the herione that can do no wrong. Frons wants us to forget about Liason as he wanted us to forget Journey.
The worst thing that happened to this show is havin Frons, Phelps and Guza at the helm. They will not allow for character driven stories, instead they flock towards agendas of their own and stunts/events to dictate storylines.

I was not a fan of Carly's but I'm still open to liking her at times.
Cuz at the end of the day Carly will not be drastically changed for her to be likeable. Either you do or don't.
As for Sam, her character is dictated by storyline/Jasam pairing. When's she with him, she's one person and not she's the total opposite.
We can have many faces to us, but some things will remain. That is not the case with Sam.
Other characters are written out of character to accomodate her and to make her more rootable.
Some characters are thrown under the bus as a result. They are made to do things that they would never do.
Agenda is written all over it.

My2Cents2 said...

Wolfie..how funny. That is what I wondered too, how did she get redressed and do her hair with one arm?? (a hole in the story) However I will let is slip if we can get more days like Thursday!

LOVE LOVE your aka Brenda comment!! She sucks the air out of me and I am only a viewer!!!
Where is Claire? In the closet with Terrell?
And Lisa? Gone but not forgotten?

Sam's head on Edwards shoulder brought tears to me! Why does it take tradgedies to bring people together?? Clearly Jason needs to reconnect to his family, and if Sam is that link, then so be it.

Sonny..BELCH. Best part of him yesterday was when Dante spoke the truth to him. Not a Dante fan, however, KUDOS to him yesterday.

Don't get me started on Diane/Coleman/Alexis. How PRICELESS were those scenes yesterday? Coleman taking his pants off as Mac walks in...lol!!
And Diane!! Her bloomies are quite fashionable!!

Like I stated earlier in a post...Thursday's episode was PERFECT entertainment!!

My2Cents2 said...

Watchintele....I don't buy Sam's new personality. I don't believe most do. Look at other forums, people are commenting on the change in her since her and Jason got engaged.
New writer on board.
Go with the changes....or FF thru the character's scenes if she bothers you. I know I dispise Liz, and I FF quite often as I don't want to see her face and that smug 'I know what is best' attitude.
Don't tell me she did what she thought was best!!!!! Or she didn't go out to hurt anyone intentionally! Wake up!! How do you give someone drugs when you don't know what he has taken to begin with? How do you not seek help from a professional? Please, she is not that professional. She is an RN. She is not licensed to give out meds.
What she did to Lucky was selfish, murderous, and NONE of her business!! Her 'decision' to not let HIS wife in on what was going on? How can you say she doesn't hurt people deliberately?? Do I need to make a list of all that she has hurt?
I am in the present. And presently she has hurt too many people. AGAIN.

I don't want to sit here and dispute Sam vs Liz. I told you, I am on the fence with Sam. However the new head writer writes, I have to believe in it.
If we want the continuation of this great soap to continue on..we have to learn to accept the changes.

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2, we have 2 different perspectives on the subject.

You said that she has changed after her and Jason got engaged. You've kinda made my point for me.
I said she's written one way with Jason and the complete opposite without him. Hence the new personality. Why cannot she be written the way she is now when she's not with Jason??? That's what I've been saying all along about her and the writing for her character.
It's inconsistent!!! It reeks of agenda. Favourites are being played. Others are written out of context to suit the change in her and how they want us to view her.
Like I said, that's my opinion.
I'm open to change. Happy there is a new head writer. Hopefully he will restore this show to what is once was. How can you sit here and think that by passively accepting everything they write without respecting character history and show history is good for the longevity of this soap? We are where we are cuz they did not respect their viewers enough to realize they have long memories and they like consistency with stories and characters.

As for Elizabeth, is there anything I can say that you will allow you to be open to another perspective of her character? You say that I'm not willing to see the whole picture regarding Sam, so after reading your comments of Liz, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that your are not open to seeing the whole picture regarding Elizabeth??

I've admitted that Elizabeth has made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes as they've been writing her that way for the past 3 years.
Presently, she did hurt Siobhan by not informing her immediately about Lucky. I'm sure she may have felt one it's not her place, and secondly even if she did tell Siobhan the minute she found out, do you honestly think Siobhan would listen to anything she would say??? The woman threw her son's death in her face. She thinks that she tried to kill her.

As for Lucky, is she wrong to help him out? Yes and No.
Yes, because she wants to be there for him the way she wasn't the last time. She's trying to make up for it. Also, when it's someone we love, we tend to take risk to save them. For example, Elizabeth was not qualified to save Jake from the fire, she did it anyway.
Carly was not qualified to help treat Robin during the hostage crisis, she did it anyway.
Again, you are not open to looking from another perspective.

Now, onto my No part. Should she have let Dante, and even Mac for that matter? Yes. Should she have asked Steven help her with Lucky? Probably.

But as I stated above, she's trying to support Lucky and protect him. Whether it's her place or not, that's up for debate.

When Lucky helped Elizabeth after she was raped, was he qualified?? NO. We help those we love.

Is Sam qualified to help Jason with his work? No, but she does it anyway, and it to can cost him his life as you say Elizabeth can cost Lucky his.

I've enjoyed the debate, but I think we have to agree to disagree.
You don't like Elizabeth for your reasons.
I've stated I cannot like Sam or support Sam for the inconsistent writing for her, how other characters are ruined, changed to make her look good, and cuz of back door politics.

As for other on the other boards, there are many that would agree with my assessment of Sam as they would agree on yours. And, the same goes for Elizabeth.
I'm sure the Jasam fans think she's changed, and those that aren't will feel she hasn't been. There will also be those that think she's written this way cuz of Frons.
Liz and Liason fans will argue she's been ruined, and those that aren't will say she's like this.

Agree to disagree. We all have our own opinions.

My2Cents2 said...

Watchintele....I am so MAD!! I couldn't watch my shows today, I have to wait until tonight!
I live in Wisconsin and the Packers went to Washington today to meet with Pres Obama. So we localy were interrupted. Its OK, I will watch later tonight and comment tomorrow.

As far as Liz goes, I am no more open to listening to reason about her than you are Sam. IMO Liz has stepped over her boundaries way too much. She is as bad as Sam. The difference is, Sam can 'own up'. Liz can't.
AGAIN, I want to emphasis, I don't 'LOVE' Sam, nor do I hate her.
I hate the new personality she has adapted to lately, however, different writers.....We must go with the flow, in order to save our soaps or enjoy the last year.

In reality there are few characters that I like as they are characters who are following a script. Ohh I enjoy watching Diane in action!!
Class act! Her and Alexis together are a bonus!
Seeing Monica back on screen is a dream. We will be seeing Alan soon. Maxie is adorable. If she could only lose Spinelli.

I watch TV for entertainment. When it stops being entertaining, then I stop. If Liz or Spinelli make me sick to watch and listen to, I ff thru there scenes.

I like Carly. I am not blind to what Carly is about. Nor do I approve of how she behaves most of the time. What I like about her, is in her role, she plays the role of a human person who I can relate to. Besides that, the women 'OWNS up' to what she is. Got respect that with her. Sometimes I see myself in her. Not good?? lol

Anonymous said...

I have loved reading the discussion her concerning Liz and Sam. I don't like Jason with Sam or with Liz. When Jason is with Sam, it is as if she becomes perfect and she is boring. Her whole being seems to revolve around him. Why not show her working more or with her sisters and Alexis? Liz and Jason just seem to have the same argument about his life being dangerous. She wants him but she wants to change him. If I was writing the show for me, I would pair Jason with Carly. However since that is not going to happen I value their friendship. Of course I am also digging Carly's interaction with Shawn. They are hot!!!

wherewolfmom said...

Shawn & Carly hot hot hot
Diane & Coleman hot hot hot
Lucky & Liz dead dead horse!
Sonny Sonny Sonny crazy crazy crazy

It was nice to see Johnny playing the piano today. I thought that was all gone. But what does Anthony want for it? There is no free lunch

Are we sure that Jerry Jax hasn't had plastic surgery again and taken Jaz's place? He wasn't to bad today but he's been awful during the divorce.

Olivia was sweet today with Carly. Made sure she ate and let her prattle on until Shawn got there.

St. Liz was beautiful helping Lucky
Someone please give Matt a story not just tack him on to someone else's!

My2Cents2 said...

Sam's whole 'being' DOES revolve around Jason. And that, is what holds me back about the character.
Not so much her past. I like strong women. She doesn't represent that for me. Unless Jason is standing next to her.
I do know that alot of viewers see chemistry between Shawn & Carly.
Jason & Carly.
Mmmmm....I wonder what is in store?
Since Jason would never look at Carly like that, maybe Shawn will be her new bff??

I missed Diane & Alexis on Friday!! I was so counting on them!
See what happens when they give me a little of them?

I see they showed the MURDERER yesterday. With her 'needles' to cure Lucky. BELCH. Once I saw her reach for a needle FF....MURDERER.

It is about to get ugly at Robin's house. That maniac Sonny. Why can't someone just shoot him and put us out of our misery?? LOVE the character as a rule, but not now.
I didn't know Jax & Robin were friends? Someone remind me of their past....

NOT HAPPY with this 'farewell' ending for Jasper. LOVE him..
He hasn't been Jasper Jax in awhile now. I miss that. I don't want a bad send off for him...and if what I am reading is true, he doesn't ride off in the same white horse he rode in.

Watchintele said...

Good morining My2Cents2,
kinda like the back & forth because it has remained civil.

I know I shouldn't but I cannot resist.

You said Sam owns up??

I, however, do not see that at all.
Either she will play victim or will lay blame at someone else's feet.


When she told Carly about Jake being Jason's son and Lucky found out.
She said that Carly attacked her verbally and that's why she said it to shut her up. Though now she regrets it, but she wanted Carly to stop.
You call that ownership?
She went there to cause trouble for Jason and Elizabeth, and to stick it to Carly. She also played victim and placed blame on Carly.

When Jason asked her why she would tell Carly.
Explanation - Jason, cuz you hurt me. You had a kid with Elizabeth. And, now we are even cuz Carly will cause trouble for you.
Call that ownership?
She clearly placed blame on Jason and was vengeful, and played victim.

When she tried to apologize to Alexis.
Explanation - You made me feel like trash and unworthy. I was made to feel like I didn't fit. I regret it though cuz Jason saw and I hurt him.
You call that ownership?
Clearly, placed blame on Alexis for her actions and only regretted it cuz Jason was hurt. Nothing really about hurting Alexis or her sisters. Again, victim.

When she went to go to and talk to Jason after he went to prison for Alcazar's murder about the kidnapping.
Explanation - Jason I was wrong, but so were you for not telling me the truth, for having a kid with Elizabeth. So I froze and watched your son get kidnapped.
You call that ownership?
She admits her mistake, but again shifts blame on Jason. That it wouldn't have happened if you told me the truth.
Again she plays victim.

When Jason confronted her about the park incident.
Explanation - I did you & Elizabeth a favour. Elizabeth saw how dangerous it is to be with Jason. Also, you had a kid with her and I can't have one cuz of you.
You call that ownership?
Again, victim. Places blame on others.

When she had an affair with Sonny. She never owned it. She would shift blame onto Sonny and say he pursued me, Carly.
Again, victim and shifts blame.

In what way has she owned anything that she's done wrong???
So now that they have her saying I made mistakes is still not ownership, only difference is she's with Jason, so no excuses are being heard. Another example of how she's written completely different when she's with Jason and without.

You also said Elizabeth doesn't own her mistakes.

After Lucky confronted her about the affair with Nikolas. All she has done is said I was wrong. I ruined us. And, now even in yesterday's episode she said I want to make up for everything I did to us. She wants to support him the way she didn't the first time around with his drug addiction.
She even apologized to Nikolas for hurting him. She did not blame him for the affair. She did not make an excuse for her role.
That's ownership.

After the truth was told to Lucky about Jake's paternity. Elizabeth said to Jason she made this mess. She made him lie. She hurt both him and Lucky, the kids and even Sam.
That's ownership.

She even took the blame for Jake's death. She went to Luke and blamed herself for what happened and absolved Luke of his part.

The difference with the 2 is that Elizabeth doesn't play victim. She may rationalize at times by saying she had good intentions. Which is wrong. What's that saying, we pave the road to hell with good intentions?? But, she never excused her behaviour or that it was herself that made the mistake.

Sam will always place blame on others for her mistakes. Play victim. Never takes ownership.
If you call saying I did that but this was the reason and it's not really my fault, that in my eyes is not ownership whatsoever.

Watchintele said...

Also wanted to touch on the another subject of blatant propping.

Hope I don't spoil the show for you.
In yesterday's show, Monica tells Sam that she's the best person to make decisions for Jason as she knows him best, as Monica doesn't, and they are getting married. She's good for him.
I knew they would have Monica cave. Such BS!! Talk about propping.

What irked me more was they had Sam give Jake's picture to Monica.
Why not allow Elizabeth give it? She was the mother of Monica's grandson. She was Emily's best friend. Allow them to have a bonding moment? To help each other? To grieve together?
They are taking moments that should be shared between other characters and giving them to Sam all to make her look sympathetic, kind, generous and the only person that should involved in every aspect of Jason's life.

Even when Edward said that Sam was like Lila. Are you for real??
If anyone was like Lila in any way it was Robin. She called Jason on his BS. She tried to make him a better person. Advocated for him to spend time with the Q's. All the things Lila did for Edward.
Sam has never really advocated for the Q's. All she's ever done is placate Jason's habit to keep the Q's at arms length. And, when Jason or the family has threatened her relationship with Jason, in her mind no less, by reaching out to one another cuz God forbid he have a relationship with his family, she has whined about it.

It's utter nonsense to constantly promote her character in every which way.

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2, to answer your question about Jax and Robin's friendship.

They were introduced by Brenda. When Brenda was "married" to Jax. They became friends then.
Jax brought Robin back to town when Brenda had the break down due to Sonny leaving her at the alter.

Since then they've had a bond.

My2Cents2 said...

Watchintele..Good Morning!!

I am not going tic for tac anymore over Liz & Sam.
I feel about Liz how I do, and nothing and nobody can change my mind. I have explained many times that I was on the 'fence' with Sam.
So I am ending this debate. I don't want to waste another forum discussing a women who I wish were dead. (Liz)
No matter how many mistakes Sam & Liz BOTH have done in their past, I can't justify Liz playing G-D with someone's life like she is known for. (inserting a drug into Lucky, keeping Sio in the dark. Hurting Nik & Lucky by sleeping with Nik!) So So much more she has done.
I didn't like seeing Monica cave like that either.. Very disapointed that she gave Sam the power. My reasons are different than yours. You want Sam to lose, I want the person who is most qualified to make decisions about Jason. That would be Monica & his Doctors. Not Sam.
The reason Sam was the one to give Monica a photo of Jake instead of Liz, is because Liz is busy right now playing G-D. (You asked)
And NO, Sam is by far NO Lila.
Even more so NOT like Lila is Liz.
There was only one Lila....
Of course that is how Jax came to Robin. Brenduh. Trying to forger Brenduh!!Thanks for the info.

I am retaping Thursday & Fridays episodes. Thursday was so enjoyable, and Friday, I hate to say, I may have dozed off.

Watchintele said...

My2Cents2, to clarify I don't want Sam to lose! Like you, I just don't feel that she is qualified to make any decisions regarding his medical care. I just find her too smug and a hypocrite when it comes to Jason and what's best for him.
And, also do not like the blatant propping of her character in this story at the expense of what is best for other characters.

Just wanted to ask a question, were Monica and Jason not on good terms?
When Jason asked the Q's to take in Michael after he awoke from his coma, I thought he and Monica had a very healthy conversation to clear the air??
Even after Michael was sent to prison, did they not still have a good conversation and there was no ill will?

So why have Sam say they've been barely on speaking terms?

Monica's absence was always explained as either she's gone on a medical conference or she was at a spa. Hence them not sharing any scenes or really speaking.

My2Cents2 said...

Watchintele....so glad to hear from you!!
I completely agree with you about Sam. She is NOT qualified to make any health decisions regarding Jason. She should be included in decisions, but ultimately, it is Monica's decision.

As far as his relationship with Monica. He never was really estranged from her like he was the other Q's. However, they were never close. After his first brain injury, he cut himself off from the Q's. He came around for Lila.
He loved Lila.
Monica and Jason shared very touching scenes throughout the years. There just wasn't enough of them!!
Hopefully that is about to change.
You could see that Jason was 'softening' in the past few months toward his family. He is beginning to feel his regrets. Probably thru Michael.
I think his dream will bring closure to his estrangement with his father and help resolve alot of issues. At least I hope!!!!

SAW said...

I love coming on here and reading KAREN's blog and others comments and responses to her; it has been quite A FUN place for over a year now. But now, I have to skip the comments. It's becoming a battle ground.

You almost seem to be commandeering the blog. I really don't want to come off RUDE but I thought I'd make a "peaceful" suggestions.

Im very opinionated myself so I started my own blog. Why don't you do the same, start your own blog!

It is free and easy. Go to google, create an email account and then start a FREE blog. Then you can VENT AWAY. Include tons of GENERAL HOSPITAL-soap opera metatags to draw readers to it, and have a blast.

If this is considered offensive and deleted Karen, I understand.

Love the WUB TUB!!

My2Cents2 said...

I get the message. You want me gone because I speak my mind.

I will leave. So if you could remove me from all mailing lists I would appreciate that.

I gave your site a chance. This site has a reputation for inaccuracies. If you go to SoapCentral, or Daytime Confidential, both of which I have been member of for over 5 years, there is alot of 'talk' about Wubs.
I personally never heard of you before I visited the other sites.

Now I have something to add!!


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